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SashiRolls[edit source | edit]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning SashiRolls[edit source | edit]

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Kingofaces43 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 17:26, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
SashiRolls (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

AE article ban at glyphosate and original AE case for reference

Standard discretionary sanctions are authorised for all pages relating to genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed.[1]

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. 06:39, October 27, 2019 Violates WAP:ABAN at glyphosate and other articles where Tryptofish has edited first.[2][3]
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
  1. June 4, 2019 Blocked for personal attacks in another topic after leaving GMO topic.
  2. Aug 10, 2019 Blocked for edit warring and harassment again.
  3. June 2017 1-year indefinite block.
  4. Dec 2016 6-month block for disruptive editing and wiki-hounding.
  5. Dec 2016 Banned from AE cases where they are not a party.
  6. Sept 2016 Topic-banned under GMO/pesticide & politics DS from Jill Stein for six months
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WAP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

SashiRolls is popping into GMO and pesticide related topics again, which I had hoped the last AE had tamped down. I won't belabor the previous AE that established extremely disruptive demeanor by SashiRolls in this subject, but short of a full-topic ban, their battleground and hounding behavior led to them being article-banned from all articles in the subject Tryptofish had edited first (Jill Stein being the only current major GMO/pesticide-related article the ban doesn't apply to my recollection). That's also part of a now one-way interaction ban with Tryptofish.[4] There's a long record of disruption, harassment, etc. looking at their block log and other AE-based sanctions. Glyphosate was the center of SashiRolls' trouble May, so there's no realistic way to claim this was a "I forgot" moment, and El C gave them guidance in my sanction link on avoiding an article like this.

This is also fairly moot considering the article ban, but a lesser but still disruptive trend is their gaming of 1RR in the subject. The diff above shows their mentality of trying to violate WAP:ONUS policy to avoid gaining consensus for disputed material and reinsert it instead when you read their edit summary. Arbs at the original GMO case were clear reinsertions like SashiRolls performed are gaming 1RR.[5]. Edit warring is part of SashiRolls' previous sanctions too.

I'd normally just undo a single ban violation like this and move on, but given the last AE and the aspersions, harassment, etc. that went on then, I definitely don't want have to be interacting with Sashi again in this subject, so I'm just asking the sanction not be ignored like this. El_C, Awilley, and TonyBallioni are familiar with the behavior problems through previous enforcement actions, and there were plenty of WAP:ROPE (or lack thereof) comments last time this came up in the GMO/pesticide topic. Especially given El C's post-ban warning about battleground behavior in this subject for comments like "compile an off-wiki list of all the dramaboard GMO cases and recurring actors to help the press get a handle on what is going on"[6], this is an editor who should be staying far away from the topic. Kingofaces43 (talk) 17:26, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

  • With El C's proposal for glyphosate, broadly construed, that would at least cover all the areas I linked above in the interaction analyzer where there were more topic-based issues than just interactions w/Tryptofish including Roundup (herbicide), Seralini affair (centered around a glyphosate experiment), and sections of articles relating to glyphosate at say Monsanto legal cases. We have an identical ban on the books for David Tornheim as an example even though we should be past this point in terms of WAP:ROPE and previous sanctions, but it's something as long as there's stiff warning about testing boundaries. Kingofaces43 (talk) 01:18, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Responses to admins

  • El C, I understand the trickiness of the sanction if this had been a periphery article where one would have to search the history as you say, and would be open to leeway in such a case. However, this is the exact article/topic where the previous disputes with Tryptofish happened in May. In terms of "obviousness" for the sanction, this one would be the highest-ranked.
A full topic-ban considering the behavior not only directed at Tryptofish would simplify things though. The current article ban wording technically should keep Sashi out of the main controversial areas anyways, but outside of glyphosate and the main GMO articles, that might be hard for Sashi, admins, etc. to track. Kingofaces43 (talk) 17:50, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
  • To be clear DGG, we already established Sashirolls had battleground/advocacy problems in glyphosate-related subjects outside the Tryptofish interaction per the last AE, El C's additional warnings, and Sashirolls' responses here. We're needing some sort of topic restriction as El C said they should have done on second thought of similar coverage to prevent disruption if the current article ban language isn't used anymore (e.g., at a minimum, glyphosate broadly construed) . Kingofaces43 (talk) 04:30, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Vanamonde93, I'd normally bring this to a talk page since I'm at the word limit, but this does need to be addressed since you accused me at this AE. I am going to have to ask that you strike the claim I "continue to misrepresent" the Jill Stein AE as those comments were not helpful at the last AE, and you were already made aware you were misunderstanding that AE by the very person who filed it when you made those claims about me. You at least shouldn't be doubling down on that, which has only continued to misrepresent me and inflame the situation further based on Sashirolls' comments here.
I was explicit that AE was opened under both politics and GMO DS due in major part to their behavior at Jill_Stein#GMOs_and_pesticides before and also at this very AE. Of course I'm going to point out there have been previous sanctions/topic bans related to GMO/pesticide topics. In admin discussion, Laserbrain was clear how exactly the behavior partitioned out under GMO or politics DS shouldn't be used as a red herring to distract from [Sashirolls'] poor behavior, as was NuclearWarfare. We also talked at SashiRolls' last AE that an admin could have flipped a coin on which single DS to formally log the sanction under, but the fact is behavior issues occurred and sanctions were considered with respect to both. As I said before, your comments to me are going in the weeds well past WAP:NOTBUREAU territory, so please reflect on the previous guidance you were given about that case and what I've actually said so we don't sidetrack this AE. I can collapse this comment later if need be, but I did need to point this out since it was directed at me. Kingofaces43 (talk) 01:54, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


Discussion concerning SashiRolls[edit source | edit]

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by SashiRolls[edit source | edit]

All Hallow's Eve collapse

I have made a grand total of one (1) edit to glyphosate or any other article related to Monsanto since being given a no-fault 2-way IBAN with Tryptofish. I did not get involved with Tryptofish in any way and did nothing which could remotely be considered wrong. I reverted an edit once and only once for which there was no established consensus. This is quite clearly bullying by a page controller.🌿 SashiRolls t · c 18:02, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Also please note that I have never been banned on the basis of GMO for anything. This was explained to KoF by @Vanamonde93: the last time KoF brought me to AE in order to remove an inconveniently conscientious editor from the subject area:

Kingofaces43, why are you claiming that SashiRolls has been sanctioned under the GMO DS before, when that's patently untrue?

(source)🌿 SashiRolls t · c 18:26, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Here they are again, continuing to make the false claim, hoping everyone will have forgotten.
The result of the AE case was a no-fault 2-way IBAN with Tryptofish. Again, I did not interact with this person. I reverted removal of information reliably sourced to the New York Times once. This should boomerang. I recommend an AE-ban for KoF as a result of their repeating accusations that have been previously identified at AE as being "patently untrue" in an effort to smear my reputation. 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 18:07, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
I have removed the edit (§) now that I have been (for the first time) informed that someone thinks I do not have the right to make it. (the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, except those who read the sources) 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 19:02, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Also, with regard to this baiting behaviour at RfA 1 (ignored, then repeated: 2). I believe the 2-way IBAN should be reinstated as per Tryptofish's own statement:

Recognizing that the 2-way IBAN was no-fault, and that there were good reasons to deal with the dispute promptly, I'm really not unhappy with the restriction, and indeed, I'm very happy to be separated from the other editor and I want to remain separated from them. In that sense, it's no big deal. But I also realize that, like it or not, some other editors are likely to misjudge me by it, and I would prefer not to have it continue hanging over my head. And I think it's clear that I can be trusted. I plan to continue to voluntarily avoid the other editor. I don't want contact with them, and I have zero interest in editing the content areas where they edit, and avoiding them is just the right thing to do. I also understand and agree that if hypothetically I were to abuse the lifting of the restriction, it will be reinstated. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:35, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Up until now, I have not commented on this baiting behaviour (making false claims to which I am prevented from responding), but I assume since the 2-way IBAN is being used against me here I have the right to speak about it. 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 20:19, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Will just add Tryptofish's first baiting comment, appropriately enough at Wikiafripedia Talk:Harassment (10 June 2019: less than 5 days after getting wiki-friends to help him wriggle out of his well-deserved "no fault" IBAN). The claims are, obviously, false. 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 01:11, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
I also am, of course, aware that El C described the 2-way IBAN as being assorted with multiple ABANs, however did not log it as such (since this would have been a draconian sanction unwarranted for no wrong-doing, which I could have successfully appealed were it on the books). What we have on the books is a 2-way ban that Tryptofish couldn't accept and so had to wriggle out of. Above are two clear examples of Tryptofish referring to me obliquely. By his own admission below, absolutely none of my subsequent edits prior to the opening of this case have referred to him (even obliquely), including the reversion of KoF's removal of the person identified by the NYT as having requested ghost-writing help from Monsanto for his Forbes article. 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 01:23, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
Someone should really sanction Kingofaces43 for contempt of AE.
Fact check
  • use of the word battleground in the original case: Kingo: 8,admins:0
  • use of the word advocacy in the original case: Sashi: 1 (speaking of KoF), everyone else: 0.
🌿 SashiRolls t · c 07:00, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
@El C:: No that is obviously not OK. You have yet to study the very clear evidence, despite the fact that you edit en.wp 13/24 hours a day (mostly in vandalism removal). Please provide evidence of any disruption. Topic banning me for removing obvious whitewashing is just going to confirm the general opinion that en.wp admins are not to be trusted. You seemed not to like me pointing out the clear ownership behavior on the talk page... ( One wonders why. 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 20:25, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Like I said El C, demonstrate that this double jeopardy is warranted, despite the fact that Trypto has been shown to have been spreading false rumors about me just above just as I have shown that KoF is making stuff up above. You need to recognize where the real problems are, which requires study, not video-game style vandalism reversion. You need to study the texts. Please indicate which texts you have read. Have you read the NYT article in question, for example? Do you think @Sj: was wrong to follow up my edit as he did given there was no consensus for KoF's edit? I happened to see the page on my watchlist, saw how silly the whitewashing was, saw there was no discussion on the TP associated with KoF's "authoritative" removal and acted. 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 21:02, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
El C: I simply want you to encourage you to reflect. RfPP is a page where you count the number of IPs who have vandalized and decide whether page protection is necessary. That's a good thing to do. I know I've appreciated seeing various pages I am one of the principal authors of protected. The 3RR noticeboard is in general a question of counting the number of reverts to see if it goes beyond 3. Writing an encyclopedia also requires in-depth study of sources. That's what I do. That's also what you should be doing here, rather than "policing tone" of someone reacting to the two complainant's blatant misrepresentations. As shown above, there is an example of one just three sentences lower ("I've entirely stayed clear of SashiRolls"). TF has referred to me disingenuously on more than one occasion on very public pages (RfA, WT:HA) and should stop doing so. Look at those diffs, please, and tell me explicitly that you think they are OK, please. Please also confirm that KoF's repeating "battleground" 8 times in his initial complaint was OK too (cf. Psychological projection).(their 1RR complaint was rejected by everyone who looked into it, even TF). 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 22:41, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
I have, of course, not said that Trypto "baited me into making an edit on glyphosate". As one who has been harassed (by Cirt, by Trypto who has shown up to every significant noticeboard discussion I've been involved in, including, of course, this one), I have WT:HA on my watchlist and participate there in an effort to improve the toxic en.wp environment. I also have every right to participate in RfA without having aspersions cast on my actions. NB: in neither case did I dignify their pot-stirring with a response (nor did anyone else). 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 22:53, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
El C. Please refrain from calling adding another smoking gun diff "refactoring".🌿 SashiRolls t · c 23:31, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
I don't understand what you want El C, but I would appreciate that you stop calling me "the user" (as you do below) and saying weird stuff about refactoring code. The former was one of CIRT/Sagecandor's depersonalization tactics. I am a person and the above is not code. I have the right to defend myself... and since you have provided the "smoking gun" proof that I added a diff showing Trypto insisted on getting an answer from an RfA candidate about something concerning me that the RfA candidate could no longer see (not yet being an admin), we should be good. 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 23:51, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Fact checking KoF who said "We also talked at SashiRolls' last AE that an admin could have flipped a coin on which single DS to formally log the sanction under", I discover that in fact it was only KoF who said this (talking about events from over 3 years ago, for which time was served for any "wrong-doing"). Again, this should be closed with a ban from AE for Kingofaces43 (contempt of AE) and the reinstatement of the 2-way ban with Tryptofish, and the reassertion of what is logged (a 2-way IBAN only) without going back and changing what is logged. 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 16:50, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

El C has provided a link below (§) which is unrelated to this case (to a comment made on my TP by a user entirely uninvolved in this discussion). In fact, El C probably wants other admins to see that another person KoF prosecuted commented on my page just after El C cherry-picked a line from a paragraph I wrote (without providing the context). El Cshould have provided the link to the context (Talk:RFA, where Trypto had been trying to encourage admins at RfA to get involved (cf. WAP:CANVAS) in the case KoF had just filed and on which Trypto had commented just two hours earlier). Here is the full statement in context. I'm not sure why El C finds transparency troubling, or why they chose to link to a 3rd party commenting about Tulsi Gabbard on my page. (Incidentally, I just helped en.wp by providing strong evidence of an LTA sockpuppet acting on that page who has now been blocked (months after being temporarily blocked for harassing me with their first edit to en.wp))

The nonsense about GMO & Jill Stein is just that. Trypto later boasted about coming to Jill Stein to hound another user I have followed the edits of editors who were parties to the GMO ArbCom case [...] and I observed that one such editor made an edit to this page that violated the DS, so I came here and corrected it. source (in fact he didn't "correct" anything in mainspace, Victoria Grayson did... but that's not overly important). Read Nuclear Warfare's comments and tell me where he talks about GMO. He doesn't. at all. He and only he decided the 6-month topic ban. The question was about sourcing of a sentence about 3rd parties, and about my inexperienced efforts shortly after I first became active on en.wp 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 19:03, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

I would suggest KoF start a clean request which recognizes there is no TBAN or ABAN logged anywhere. Too many words have been spilled into this page and several others because of this request. In any case, I will not be participating further for at the very minimum 3 days. I have 40 or 50 pages to translate this weekend. Sorry. 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 00:24, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Final Statement

So a few people had comments this weekend. I'll take a break to reply.

One of the commenters I am only allowed to respond to here because of the fact that KoF filed this case, (erroneously) alleging a violation of an IBAN, because I reverted his deletion of another person (SJ)'s edit. That commenter (Mr. Trypto) has recently written over 9.3K in this thread and 8.4K in another discussion thread about things concerning me.

Despite my conciliatory efforts to get him out of my hair (I offered to delete the evidence page, for example, and hatted any reference to him on this page), they didn't take the hint and continued adding more and more comments to this noticeboard thread, and spreading disinformation about me at deletion review: e.g. "SashiRolls is also banned from GMOs" (source).

Let's read his words again: "I also understand and agree that if hypothetically I were to abuse the lifting of the restriction [2-way IBAN], it will be reinstated." --Tryptofish: 20:35, 5 June 2019.

Again, after bringing an initial case against me at AE in 2016, he has followed me to AE at least 4 times: twice for Cirt (Christmas 2016, May 2017), and twice in 2019 for Kingofaces43. He was particularly involved in lobbying against the CIRT unblock in 2018 ("strongest possible oppose") at AN, and followed me to AN/I with scary fish pictures. Since his part of the IBAN was lifted, he has opened discussions about my actions at RfA, alleged that "someone" hounded them at WT:HA, and said demonstrably false stuff at deletion review in addition to lobbying for sanctions here.

Perhaps Trypto himself, in the interest of fairness and the sheer volume of evidence, will voluntarily submit to the reinstatement of the 2-way IBAN given his difficulty staying away from me / not talking about me. Nope, Tryptofish has indicated he won't take responsibility for his actions. (actions = fishing for sanctions at noticeboards, speaking of which, I forgot to mention their comments on Kolya's unanimously rejected ArbCom case.)

Meanwhile, Laser brain is miffed. Laser brain has done 1/6 of the work I have in mainspace this year. I have never seen him on a single page I've contributed to, suggesting he might not be an expert on my skills or lack thereof.

Tony Ballioni says he has nothing to say about this case, but has taken the opportunity to make a speech about making sanctions clear. What could be clearer than a 2-way interaction ban? Certainly not a 1-way IBAN which sanctions the victim of a demonstrable pattern of noticeboard fishing.

Regarding glyphosate I am still waiting for any evidence whatsoever of disruption in the last three months. My prediction is that it will be hard to find, because it doesn't exist. Many of my additions this year have remained (or were moved to another related mainspace page by an admin). It's difficult to see what the complaint is. Here it appears to be that I reverted Kingofaces43 once and reverted my reversion as soon as it was suggested I should, which I would submit is not nearly enough to topic ban someone.

🌿 SashiRolls t · c 10:30, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Tryptofish[edit source | edit]

Facepalm Facepalm. I guess I'm glad that I was not logged in when the edit to glyphosate happened. But, good grief! First of all, I've entirely stayed clear of SashiRolls, even after the IBAN was revised to 1-way, and I am aware of this AE only because I was pinged. But I've got to wonder: why didn't SashiRolls just say here something like "woops, that was a mistake, I'm sorry, and I won't do it again"? (He did self-revert in response to this complaint.) This is the first time that SashiRolls has violated the "letter of the law" of El C's IBAN, but it is unambiguously a violation. I will note however, that SashiRolls has also shown up, after the IBAN was in place, at WT:HA, where I have long been a very active contributor. Here's a permalink to the current version of that talk page: [8]. If you just do a very fast skim of it, you will see me showing up in nearly every thread. But when you get down pretty low on that talk page, when you come to WT:HA#Abuse of Administrative Boards, there he is. I stayed out of the thread that he started, and the next one, until what I describe next happened (even though this happened after the IBAN had been changed to 1-way). In a later thread, I was discussing some things with TonyBallioni: [9], [10], and then SashiRolls replied directly into that part of the discussion: [11], taking up the thread of "opposition research" from Tony's reply to me. I found that a bit uncomfortable. I did not make an issue of it, because it did not, strictly speaking, violate the "letter" of the IBAN. He wasn't replying directly to me, and a case can certainly be made that he could have had a legitimate interest in the harassment policy, and El C's IBAN was written only in terms of mainspace, for the entirely valid reason of not applying to noticeboards, and this was policy space. It sure looks to me like testing boundaries.

But, as already noted above, it is simply preposterous to argue that it was not obvious that glyphosate was part of the IBAN. The original conflict that led to the IBAN took place at that very page (along with the related Séralini affair). And SashiRolls has actually said that he knew that glyphosate was included in the ban: [12]. And, for a topic area that ArbCom placed under 1RR, the tone of the edit was clearly battleground-y. It's a violation of the existing 1-way ban, no matter what modifications anyone might consider for the future.

For the future, changing it to a GMO topic ban, in part, might be helpful, as might, in addition, making the 1-way IBAN a traditional 1-way IBAN. But whatever you do, please do not eliminate the 1-way IBAN with me. I don't need any more of this stuff. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:39, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

@Admins: I think that a TBAN just to glyphosate would be a mistake; it should instead be a TBAN over the entire GMO DS topic area. For example, the run-in with me very much also involved Séralini affair. Also, it would make little sense to topic ban from glyphosate but not from Roundup (herbicide). (The DS topic areas of previous AE complaints are irrelevant here.) And I do think there needs to be a TBAN in addition to the IBAN, because otherwise I have no doubt that I will find myself with Tryptofish-only and SashiRolls-only talk page sections going on simultaneously at multiple GMO page talk pages (and I think everyone agrees that asking SashiRolls to look at long-term page edit histories is suboptimal, so it needs to be topic-based). My experience so far has been that the GMO area is the only topic where I've had problems that would not be easily covered by the IBAN. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:50, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
I have absolutely not baited SashiRolls into making the edit at glyphosate, which is what this AE is about. I haven't baited him anywhere else either, but if he feels mistreated he can open a separate complaint about it. (Otherwise, it's just deflection.) And a great way not to be troubled about anything that I post would be to stop following me around and reading what I say. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:47, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Following up on some recent comments:
@El C: About your burnout-related comments, that's the way (but as a non-admin) that I've been feeling for a long time about my own interactions here. 'Nuff said. About the TBAN scope, though, whether "light" or not, I really would strongly encourage you to simply follow the scope of the GMO DS (which include carefully crafted wording about "agricultural chemicals"). That definition of scope was worked out with much effort over a monster of an ArbCom case and a subsequent amendment, and has been working very well. There is no need to try to reinvent something new.
@Vanamonde and KofA: I personally like both of you very much, and I hope we can all lighten up a bit about the topic area for Jill Stein. As I understand it, the earlier sanctions were logged under AP2 and not GMO, but arose from the GMO section of the page (a BLP of an AP politician). The complaint we are dealing with here, however, is focused on one edit at the glyphosate page, but with too much noise in the background. The nature of this complaint leaves everyone including me feeling irritable, but I think both of you are acting in good faith. Peace.
--Tryptofish (talk) 18:36, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
I want to briefly address Levivich's comment. At least some of it might be true, if what we were talking about were a standard IBAN. But it wasn't. One thing that I think everyone, including El C, agrees about is that the sanction that El C imposed (I'm talking about the original version of the IBAN, not the brief indef) was a Rube Goldberg improvisation that should be cleaned up here. Let's be very clear what was, and what was not, in effect at the time that this AE was opened:
Here is El C's original statement of the sanction: [13]. Quote: either of you are subject to an WAP:ABAN on articles the other party has edited first. That was not subject to any exception based on the momentary context. Subsequently, the sanction was lifted for me, making it a 1-way sanction applying to SashiRolls. Thus: SashiRolls is prohibited, full stop, from editing any page that I edited first. And SashiRolls knew that glyphosate was such a page, because he said so himself: [14]. And Levivich knew it too, because he too said so himself: [15]. And both of them ought to remember it. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:41, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
  • The tl;dr: SashiRolls was banned from editing glyphosate, and he knew it: [16]. But he chose to thumb his nose at that sanction: [17]. That's it. It's just that simple. All the rest is noise, or intentional misdirection. What remains to be done now is to fashion a resolution that keeps things peaceful between him and me. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:47, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
  • During the brief indef block, SashiRolls posted at Wikipediocracy that he thinks that I am trying to get some negative information about Monsanto deleted from the glyphosate page. At the time he posted that, here is the single edit that I had made, to the talk page: [18]. Judge for yourself. So what we need is: (1) a standard 1-way IBAN with me, and (2) a standard TBAN from GMOs, with the scope defined in the standard way devised by ArbCom. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:53, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
  • +1 to what Tony Ballioni said. It's above my pay grade what you all should do more broadly, but whatever you decide, I want this user to be kept away from me. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:03, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
    • Admins should consider self-awareness and willingness to accept responsibility. (And noting: [19].) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:18, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Nblund[edit source | edit]

Just going to butt in here: I'm not involved in this particular dispute, but I'm definitely involved with regard to SashiRolls. I think this interaction, my previous experience at ANI, and the even older AE discussions linked above point to a consistent pattern of asserting incredible levels of bad-faith on other editors in topic areas involving left-wing anti-establishment politics, while simultaneously demanding the assumption of good faith for his own actions.

Most discussions I have with SashiRolls contain multiple variations on the theme in the final sentence of his comment to EL_C here: an over-the-top, evidence-free, non-specific allegation of malicious intent that is guaranteed to derail the discussion if anyone bothers to address it. By the same token: I suspect that everyone pretty much recognizes that SashiRolls' off-handed accusation that Tryptofish has "harassed him" (here) is absurd, and yet — because it has absolutely nothing to do with the dispute — it sort of just slides by without a remark from anyone.

It looks to me like that problem has been ongoing for years, it hasn't improved despite multiple sanctions, and, yes, I suspect it has gone unaddressed partly because the admins most familiar with the behavior end up feeling burned out and/or emotionally involved after being on the receiving end of it. I understand it would probably be draconian to suddenly turn this AE request in to a referendum on SashiRolls' long-term behavior, but I just want to note that what is on display here is more-or-less the norm, and I really doubt a topic ban will address the root problem. Nblund talk 19:29, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Levivich[edit source | edit]

I appreciate El C erring on the side of unblocking.

This report should be closed as no violation. It is based on one diff: this one, which was restoring sourced content that KofA removed here. This is not an edit war, this is one revert. It's not a violation of the IBAN with Tryp, because it's a revert of KofA, not Tryp. It's not a violation of a TBAN because there is no TBAN. It's not a violation of the ABAN, because, if I understand correctly, it was not logged and/or has been rescinded. So, there's no violation here.

It reads to me that when Sashi reverted KofA, KofA's response to that was to take Sashi to AE, and allege it was a violation of a TBAN that he had already had explained to him did not exist. This is the weaponization of AE, and it should be discouraged. Sashi hasn't edited that article or talk page since May, and one revert gets him reported at AE? I find it outrageous.

Finally I note that on Sep 27, both Sashi and Tryp (along with other editors) were pinged to a thread (about a content dispute involving KofA, incidentally). Tryp posted in that thread; Sashi did not. That's evidence of Sashi complying with the IBAN even though Sashi doesn't agree with it.

Reverting KofA's edit was not a violation of the IBAN with Tryp. Unless there is evidence of Sashi violating the IBAN since it was imposed, this report should be closed as no violation. Also, before we institute a TBAN from a topic area, we should probably have some diffs of disruptive editing in that topic area from, say, within the last 30 days. Levivich 03:11, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

@Tryp: perhaps you missed the part where I wrote "It's not a violation of the ABAN, because, if I understand correctly, it was not logged and/or has been rescinded." Not sure where you got the idea I didn't remember the ABAN. What I find simple is this: Sashi hasn't violated the 1-way IBAN since it was instituted. Ergo, there is no further sanction that is needed to keep things "peaceful" between you two, because things are already peaceful. Unless you have some diffs of recent disruption to share? Levivich 18:03, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Result concerning SashiRolls[edit source | edit]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • This auto-ABAN concept would be unusual, and it's not mentioned as part of the sanction in the AE close or in the ACDSLOG, where it's noted simply to be an IBAN. IBAN itself has no such provision, and it in fact explicitly allows editing the same article without direct contact (in fact, the community recently overwhelmingly overturned an AE block in this situation). It's unclear to me whether this was just an erroneous statement by El_C, or if it was specifically intended to be an expanded IBAN with an automatic ABAN from any article edited first by the other user. This needs clarification first. ~Swarm~ {sting} 17:37, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
    • @Laser brain: Just as a procedural note, we cannot actually indef block under Arbitration enforcement; blocks are limited to a one year maximum. You may discretionarily block as you see fit. This seems to be trending towards a revision of the existing sanction, simply due to the fact that the existing one is impractical. ~Swarm~ {sting} 22:18, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) It's a violation. But in retrospect, I'm not sure my unique sanction framework was the most well-formed idea — expecting them to search every article to see if the other party has edited it is a bit much. Unless they knew in advance that the other party has edited there, then it's just a straight interaction ban violation, which is (?) or should be in place, and consensus is for one-way. Anyway, now that I think about it, I should have probably just done a straight GMO topic ban alongside a one-way interaction ban, which we can still do. Sorry for the lapse. El_C 17:38, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
  • @Kingofaces43: Still, due to my lapse, I get the sense that this will be more a discussion about implementing these new restrictions on the user than one involving the enforcement of existing ones. El_C 18:53, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Unless there are objections from other uninvolved admins, I intend to reformulate the sanction to cover an interaction ban with Tryptofish (one-way) and a topic ban from glyphosate, broadly construed. El_C 19:59, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
  • @SashiRolls: Your objection is noted. As is the aggressive, battleground tone. A pivotal reason why you should stay away from Tryptofish and the articles they edit. El_C 20:43, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
  • @SashiRolls: Your battleground tone is noted, again. Anyway, I want you to not edit articles where Tryptofish frequents. If there is no consensus among uninvolved admin to restrict you toward that end, also topically, that's fine with me. I'm not sure why I would need to study the nuances of the latest content dispute to adopt that approach. El_C 21:37, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Also, in regards to video game approach that SashiRolls attributes to me, I note that, currently, I have closed 8 out of 17 reports listed at AN3 and been equally active in RfPP. Just two example. What's most visible is not necessarily an indication of focus or time commitment. So that, coming from someone who argues for the need of further study, is especially ironic. El_C 21:56, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Once again, a superficial overview, not only of what I do on Wikiafripedia, overall, but also the often much more nuanced role that involves AN3 and RfPP. And those were just two examples. To say that I don't study sources as a Wikiafripedia editor is plain false. Diverting this request, which is about you, to focus on me, is a rhetorical device whose usefulness is in question. El_C 22:53, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
  • @SashiRolls: this isn't a negotiation. You are not permitted to refactor comments that others may have already responded to. Full stop. El_C 23:41, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
  • I have reached out to Awilley to get their input about SashiRolls' conduct in these very proceedings. We have a user here, SashiRolls, who has been indefinitely blocked so many times for battleground behaviour and personal comments (which this time I was the recipient of) — always with another final warning. I'm not sure why this continues to be tolerated. There is a dissonance here that mystifies me. El_C 17:04, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm getting the sense there is severe admin burnout associated with anything having to do with SashiRolls, which leads to the continuation of egregious behaviour, seemingly indefinitely. As far I'm concerned, a GMO (or GMO-light) topic ban follows from SashiRolls stating, for example, that they may compile an off-wiki list of all the dramaboard GMO cases and recurring actors to help the press get a handle on what is going on. [20] That my somewhat misguided ABAN sanction failed to fulfill this intended topic restriction is not a reason such a ban from this topic area should be withheld. Vanamonde, in light of this, does your objection to a topic ban still stand? El_C 17:38, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure why El C finds transparency troubling@SashiRolls: this innuendo reflect poorly on you. I am obliged to attribute the quote, not provide what you deem as "context." Context which I am entitled to contend is immaterial, anyway. El_C 19:32, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Just noting that I have indefinitely blocked SashiRolls for linking externally to a deleted page that was twice deleted as an attack page. But due to the DRV being mixed about its status as an attack page, I've unblocked SashiRolls — so this request, which I have suspended, can now resume. El_C 23:58, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
  • I agree that "an WAP:ABAN on articles the other party has edited first." is an unreasonably restrictive sanction. It is not necessary to prevent disruption, and it prevents full consideration of a very wide number of articles. A standard i-ban is sufficient, and, given the above stateent by El C, ithe wording should be changed. DGG ( talk ) 00:52, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
  • I can see why this needs to be a standard one-way IBAN, together with a warning that skirting the edge of the ban would be grounds for heavier sanctions. I don't see grounds for a TBAN yet; SashiRolls's behavior is poor, but I see no evidence that it's worse in a given area, only that it's worse when related to Tryptofish. Kingofaces43, I pointed out to you in a previous AE discussion that SashiRolls' TBAN from Jill Stein was under AP2 discretionary sanctions, not GMO discretionary sanctions. You've repeated that erroneous statement here. The enforcement log is here. That's borne out by the administrator comments at the relevant AE discussion. It might seem like a minor point, but it is very relevant to establishing the locus of bad behavior; and if you continue to misrepresent it, it reflects poorly on you. Vanamonde (Talk) 21:16, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
    Playing holier-than-thou isn't doing you any favors, Kingofaces43. I'm not going to excuse SashiRolls's behavior because of your choice of words, but his behavior doesn't excuse your throwing the kitchen sink at him, either. He was sanctioned for his behavior on the article on Jill Stein, including, but not limited to, material related to GMOs. And that's what you should have said. What you typed in your initial request is a misrepresentation. Vanamonde (Talk) 04:54, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
    @El C: No, I'm not going to stand in the way of a TBAN. SashiRolls's attitude here is terrible. I just don't want egregious bad behavior on one person's part to make us blind to everything else that goes on. Tryptofish, you know I've a lot of respect for you, and I'll go on record saying that your conduct in this area is something that other users should seek to emulate; but I think you have, on occasion, been blinded in this manner; and I have neither the time nor the patience to go into this further at this time, so let's just deal with SR and move on. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:00, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
  • I am miffed that anyone is even discussing all these elaborate mechanisms to enable this editor to continue to take up community time. I supported his unblocking a year ago (after previously advocating for an extended block owing to poor behavior) saying "I'm convinced SashiRolls wants to contribute and improve Wikiafripedia." I still think this is remotely true, but my impression was that unblock was a "you're on thin ice" action and he's been blocked, what, three times since then? For poor behavior? Enough is enough, this should be an indef block. I object to the continued formulation of esoteric sanctions to attempt to deal with this editor. --Laser brain (talk) 18:07, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
  • No comments one way or another on this specific case, but I read Laser brain's comments and felt the need to comment more generally: there has been a trend of late to try to craft specialty sanctions to contain disruption in known areas while allowing freedom in every area other than the super niche rules. That is both next to impossible to enforce and also spreads disruption elsewhere because super-niche sanctions are prone to being gamed and people causing disruption in similar ways that do not fall technically foul of the sanction, but if a more standardized remedy had been applied, would obviously been a violation.
    All this to say, if sanctions are merited, I strongly oppose some special sanction. Make it standard. If that's an indef regular admin block, cool. If it's an AE block for however log, sure. If it's a TBAN, no problem, just make it a regular TBAN instead of a unique article one with special carve outs.
    In short, we should stop insisting on giving disruptive individuals every opportunity to prove they aren't going to change. If they've already shown it, then deal with it in a respectful ordinary fashion. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:36, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
  • I agree with TonyBallioni here. If someone is editing disruptively in a DS area, they need to be removed from this area. In this case, I think it is quite clear that SashiRolls' conduct has been disruptive (including even at this request), and I think they should be removed from that area, with a firm understanding that if the disruption moves elsewhere or there's any testing of the topic ban conditions, the next step is likely an indef. Most people manage to edit, even frequently, without causing too much trouble, so there's only so many chances for change we should give those who persistently are causing trouble. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:03, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Johnrichardhall‎‎[edit source | edit]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Johnrichardhall‎‎[edit source | edit]

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
NewsAndEventsGuy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 21:53, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
Johnrichardhall‎‎ (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikiafripedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate change#User conduct and Wikiafripedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Editing_of_Biographies_of_Living_Persons#Decorum :

Original venue - BLP Talk:Greta Thunberg

Lead up - The lead up involved some discussion of RSs for the part of Greta Thunberg's message that touches on biodiversity loss. We had RSs before us and were working on the best way to include them. Into that discussion, with no RSs at all, John starts talking about Indigenous peoples. Talk pages are not for general WAP:FORUM discussions and we generally try to avoid comments like "There must be sources". I tried getting John to come back with sources. Maybe subtle hinting is lost on John, I don't know. Anyway, before long

"this back and forth with [[User:NewsAndEventsGuy|NewsAndEventsGuy]] is a prime example of why. I'd rather have a root canal with no [[Novocain]] than respond to such pontifications. Accordingly, I'll jump out of [[User:NewsAndEventsGuy|NewsAndEventsGuy's]] sandbox to avoid further sanctions and/or postings on my talk page which I delete post-haste."
"this back and forth with NewsAndEventsGuy is a prime example of why I'd rather have a root canal with no Novocain."
  • 19:48, 1 November 2019 At John's talk I asked him to self revert. I closed with an attempt at self-deprecating humor.
"Your declaratory statement of deeming my statement—preferring a root cannel without Nonvaccine over interacting with you—as a personal attack on you does not make it so and is beyond my control, and frankly shows a fragile thin-skin state of being. It seems that you are becoming obsessed with me..."
That last part is really strange, since I've never dealt with John before seeing him at this BLP page and to best of my knowledge we haven't engaged in any back and forth before this incident.


In the grand scheme of things, this is a little thing. But disruption is best nipped when it is a little thing, so I decided to take time to file. Both WAP:ARBCC#Principles and WAP:BLP#Principles reiterate the policy on WAP:No personal attacks. John's initial attack on me could be attributed to not knowing or having an off day. But his insistence on first restoring it, and then telling me and my thin skin to bugger off is not how we build trusting collaborative community.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

John was notified 21:59, November 1, 2019

NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 22:01, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Notification of ARB/DS in effect

Updated... (thanks @Ymblanter:... sorry I forgot them earlier NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:09, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

  • @Swarm: My response at this particular page was influenced by my knowledge of the protection log and long history of problematic commentary. Mostly I would have asked for sources simply and directly, yet the opening post was based on observations of where people stand. Sure sounded like WAP:Original research and not long ago the OR subject under discussion (by others) was this minor aged woman's looks. So just wanted to say location history plays a large part of my choice of approach there. I may have misjudged in this case. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:45, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Johnrichardhall‎‎[edit source | edit]

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Johnrichardhall‎‎[edit source | edit]

Please have me thrown off of Wikiafripedia, I shall not fight it. I was simply passing time and trying to assist, to which--NewsAndEventsGuy--is oppose. I'll happily accept banishment from your sandbox if that is the decree. Pinging @NewsAndEventsGuy:Johnrichardhall (talk) 22:43, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (username)[edit source | edit]

Result concerning Johnrichardhall‎‎[edit source | edit]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • So far, I do not see any evidence that the user has been made aware of discretionary sanctions.--Ymblanter (talk) 22:39, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
  • The thread itself started out fairly innocuous. John suggested that the subject's emphasis of indigenous peoples is important to the article. NAEG asked what the significance was and and what the sources say, which is perfectly reasonable. John appeared agitated by this inquiry, perhaps misreading the tone, saying, sarcastically, that no one cares and it's meaningless. NAEG responded amicably, saying that the relevant RS should be examined. John says okay, he'll look into it if he can find the time. All good, until NAEG responds, telling John to not start threads without having RS at the ready first. That's where everything seems to go downhill and the series of diffs above occur. John's mannerisms are perhaps a little eccentric, but it's quite clear that John was simply talking about improving the article in good faith and NAEG upset him by essentially calling his thread worthless. There's nothing wrong with suggesting adding content without having sources on-hand, obviously, and, as can be seen in the thread, it clearly wasn't going "nowhere", with another user already agreeing with John's suggestion. Were John's words technically a personal attack by way of invoking negative personal commentary? I guess you can say that. Did it really warrant unilateral deletion, demands that he remove it, AE sanctions? No, it is minor, but that's not why this shouldn't be actioned. It shouldn't be actioned because it's not indicitave of a behavioral problem, but was directly provoked by an unnecessarily rude and condescending comment. When a user says they'd rather have a root canal rather than respond to your "pontificating", it's probably best to examine whether you're being a little bit out of line before attempting to railroad them for personal attacks. ~Swarm~ {sting} 22:56, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
  • I would not take any action on this request. Certainly the "root canal" comment probably wasn't the best response, but it was also in response to a fair degree of provocation. "Can you source that claim?" is of course a reasonable request, but it still can be made a great deal more civilly than it was, and I think it was NAEG's snark that caused things to degenerate in tone. That needs to be toned way down going forward, especially in sensitive areas. This type of request is a good way to see a boomerang fly. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:11, 3 November 2019 (UTC)