Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion

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Closing instructions

XFD backlog
  Sep Oct Nov Dec TOTAL
CfD 0 0 0 0 47
TfD 0 0 0 0 3
MfD Lua error in Module:XfD_old/AfD_and_MfD at line 32: attempt to index local 'content' (a nil value). Lua error in Module:XfD_old/AfD_and_MfD at line 32: attempt to index local 'content' (a nil value). Lua error in Module:XfD_old/AfD_and_MfD at line 32: attempt to index local 'content' (a nil value). Lua error in Module:XfD_old/AfD_and_MfD at line 32: attempt to index local 'content' (a nil value). Lua error in Module:XfD_old/AfD_and_MfD at line 32: attempt to index local 'content' (a nil value).
FfD 0 0 0 0 5
AfD Lua error in Module:XfD_old/AfD_and_MfD at line 16: attempt to index local 'content' (a nil value). Lua error in Module:XfD_old/AfD_and_MfD at line 16: attempt to index local 'content' (a nil value). Lua error in Module:XfD_old/AfD_and_MfD at line 16: attempt to index local 'content' (a nil value). Lua error in Module:XfD_old/AfD_and_MfD at line 16: attempt to index local 'content' (a nil value). Lua error in Module:XfD_old/AfD_and_MfD at line 16: attempt to index local 'content' (a nil value).

On this page, the deletion or merging of templates and modules, except as noted below, is discussed. To propose the renaming of a template or templates, use Wikiafripedia:Requested moves.

How to use this page[edit source | edit]

What not to propose for discussion here[edit source | edit]

The majority of deletion and merger proposals concerning pages in the template namespace and module namespace should be listed on this page. However, there are a few exceptions:

Stub templates
Stub templates and categories should be listed at Categories for discussion, as these templates are merely containers for their categories, unless the stub template does not come with a category and is being nominated by itself.
Userboxes should be listed at Miscellany for deletion, regardless of the namespace in which they reside.
Speedy deletion candidates
If the template clearly satisfies a "general" or "template" criterion for speedy deletion, tag it with a speedy deletion template. For example, if you wrote the template and request its deletion, tag it with {{Db-author}}. If it is a hardcoded instance or duplication of another template, tag it with {{Db-t3|~~~~~|name of other template}}.
Policy or guideline templates
Templates that are associated with particular Wikiafripedia policies or guidelines, such as the speedy deletion templates, cannot be listed at TfD separately. They should be discussed on the talk page of the relevant guideline.
Template redirects
List at Redirects for discussion.

Reasons to delete a template[edit source | edit]

  1. The template violates some part of the template namespace guidelines, and can't be altered to be in compliance
  2. The template is redundant to a better-designed template
  3. The template is not used, either directly or by template substitution (the latter cannot be concluded from the absence of backlinks), and has no likelihood of being used
  4. The template violates a policy such as Neutral point of view or Civility and it can't be fixed through normal editing

Templates should not be nominated if the issue can be fixed by normal editing. Instead, you should edit the template to fix its problems. If the template is complex and you don't know how to fix it, WikiProject Templates may be able to help.

Templates for which none of these apply may be deleted by consensus here. If a template is being misused, consider clarifying its documentation to indicate the correct use, or informing those that misuse it, rather than nominating it for deletion. Initiate a discussion on the template talk page if the correct use itself is under debate.

Listing a template[edit source | edit]

To list a template for deletion or merging, follow this three-step process. Note that the "Template:" prefix should not be included anywhere when carrying out these steps (unless otherwise specified).

Step Instructions
I: Tag the template. Add one of the following codes to the top of the template page:
  • For deletion: {{subst:tfd}}
  • For deletion of a sidebar or infobox template: {{subst:tfd|type=sidebar}}
  • For deletion of an inline template: {{subst:tfd|type=inline}}
  • For deletion of a module: {{subst:tfd|type=module|page=name of module}} at the top of the module's /doc subpage.
  • For merging: {{subst:tfm|name of other template}}
  • For merging an inline template: {{subst:tfm|type=inline|name of other template}}
  • If the template nominated is inline, do not add a newline between the Tfd notice and the code of the template.
  • If the template to be nominated for deletion is protected, make a request for the Tfd tag to be added, by posting on the template's talk page and using the {{editprotected}} template to catch the attention of administrators.
  • For templates designed to be substituted, add <noinclude>...</noinclude> around the Tfd notice to prevent it from being substituted alongside the template.
  • Do not mark the edit as minor.
  • Use an edit summary like
    Nominated for deletion; see [[Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion#Template:name of template]]
    Nominated for merging; see [[Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion#Template:name of template]].
  • Before saving your edit, preview your edit to ensure the Tfd message is displayed properly.

Multiple templates: If you are nominating multiple related templates, choose a meaningful title for the discussion (like "American films by decade templates"). Tag every template with {{subst:tfd|heading=discussion title}} or {{subst:tfm|name of other template|heading=discussion title}} instead of the versions given above, replacing discussion title with the title you chose (but still not changing the PAGENAME code). Note that TTObot is available to tag templates en masse if you do not wish to do it manually.

Related categories: If including template-populated tracking categories in the Tfd nomination, add {{Catfd|template name}} to the top of any categories that would be deleted as a result of the Tfd, this time replacing template name with the name of the template being nominated. (If you instead chose a meaningful title for a multiple nomination, use {{Catfd|header=title of nomination}} instead.)

TemplateStyles pages: The above templates will not work on TemplateStyles pages. Instead, add a CSS comment to the top of the page:

/* This template is being discussed in accordance with Wikiafripedia's deletion policy. Help reach a consensus at its entry: for discussion/Log/2021_December_1#Template:template_name.css */

Protected pages: If you are incapable of tagging a page due to protection, please either leave a note on the page's talk page under a {{edit protected}} header, or leave a note at the Administrators' noticeboard, requesting tagging of the page.

II: List the template at Tfd. Follow this link to edit today's Tfd log.

Add this text at the top, just below the -->:

  • For deletion: {{subst:tfd2|template name|text=Why you think the template should be deleted. ~~~~}}
  • For merging: {{subst:tfm2|template name|other template's name|text=Why you think the templates should be merged. ~~~~}}

If the template has had previous Tfds, you can add {{Oldtfdlist|previous Tfd without brackets|result of previous Tfd}} directly after the Tfd2/Catfd2 template.

Use an edit summary such as
Adding [[Template:template name]].

Multiple templates: If this is a deletion proposal involving multiple templates, use the following:

{{subst:tfd2|template name 1|template name 2 ...|title=meaningful discussion title|text=Why you think the templates should be deleted. ~~~~}}

You can add up to 50 template names (separated by vertical bar characters | ). Make sure to include the same meaningful discussion title that you chose before in Step 1.

If this is a merger proposal involving more than two templates, use the following:

{{subst:tfm2|template name 1|template name 2 ...|with=main template (optional)|title=meaningful discussion title|text=Why you think the templates should be merged. ~~~~}}

You can add up to 50 template names (separated by vertical bar characters | ), plus one more in |with=. |with= does not need to be used, but should be the template that you want the other templates to be merged into. Make sure to include the same meaningful discussion title that you chose before in Step 1.

Related categories: If this is a deletion proposal involving a template and a category populated solely by templates, add this code after the Tfd2 template but before the text of your rationale:

{{subst:catfd2|category name}}
III: Notify users. Please notify the creator of the template nominated (as well as the creator of the target template, if proposing a merger). It is helpful to also notify the main contributors of the template that you are nominating. To find them, look in the page history or talk page of the template. Then, add one of the following:

to the talk pages of the template creator (and the creator of the other template for a merger) and the talk pages of the main contributors. It is also helpful to make any interested WikiProjects aware of the discussion. To do that, make sure the template's talk page is tagged with the banners of any relevant WikiProjects; please consider notifying any of them that do not use Article alerts.

Multiple templates: There is no template for notifying an editor about a multiple-template nomination: please write a personal message in these cases.

Consider adding any templates you nominate for Tfd to your watchlist. This will help ensure that the Tfd tag is not removed.

After nominating: Notify interested projects and editors[edit source | edit]

While it is sufficient to list a template for discussion at TfD (see above), nominators and others sometimes want to attract more attention from and participation by informed editors. All such efforts must comply with Wikiafripedia's guideline against biased canvassing.

To encourage participation by less experienced editors, please avoid Wikiafripedia-specific abbreviations in the messages you leave about the discussion, link to any relevant policies or guidelines, and link to the TfD discussion page itself. If you are recommending that an template be speedily deleted, please give the criterion that it meets, such as "T3" for hardcoded instances.

Notifying related WikiProjects

WikiProjects are groups of editors that are interested in a particular subject or type of editing. If the article is within the scope of one or more WikiProjects, they may welcome a brief, neutral note on their project's talk page(s) about the TfD. You can use {{Tfdnotice}} for this.

Tagging the nominated template's talk page with a relevant Wikiproject's banner will result in the template being listed in that project's Article Alerts automatically, if they subscribe to the system. For instance, tagging a template with {{WikiProject Physics}} will list the discussion in Wikiafripedia:WikiProject Physics/Article alerts.

Notifying substantial contributors to the template

While not required, it is generally considered courteous to notify the good-faith creator and any main contributors of the template and its talkpage that you are nominating for discussion. To find the creator and main contributors, look in the page history or talk page.

At this point, you've done all you need to do as nominator. Sometime after seven days have passed, someone else will either close the discussion or, where needed, "relist" it for another seven days of discussion. (That "someone" may not be you, the nominator.)

Once you have submitted a template here, no further action is necessary on your part. If the nomination is supported, helpful administrators and editors will log the result and ensure that the change is implemented to all affected pages.

Also, consider adding any templates you nominate to your watchlist. This will help ensure that your nomination tag is not mistakenly or deliberately removed.

Twinkle[edit source | edit]

Twinkle is a convenient tool that can perform many of the functions of notification automatically. Twinkle does not notify WikiProjects, although many of them have automatic alerts. It is helpful to notify any interested WikiProjects that don't receive alerts, but this has to be done manually.

Discussion[edit source | edit]

Anyone can join the discussion, but please understand the deletion policy and explain your reasoning.

People will sometimes also recommend subst or subst and delete and similar. This means the template text should be "merged" into the articles that use it. Depending on the content, the template page may then be deleted; if preserving the edit history for attribution is desirable, it may be history-merged with the target article or moved to mainspace and redirected.

Templates are rarely orphaned—that is, removed from pages that transclude them—before the discussion is closed. A list of open discussions eligible for closure can be found at Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Old unclosed discussions.

Current discussions[edit source | edit]

Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 December 1 Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 November 30 Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 November 29 Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 November 28 Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 November 27 Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 November 26 Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 November 25 Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 November 24

Old discussions[edit source | edit]

October 13

Template:Infobox Paris by Night

Propose merging Template:Infobox Paris by Night into Template:Infobox television episode.
Redundant, per prior discussion at Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2015 May 6#Template:Infobox Paris by Night. Though that closed as no consensus, in June 2015, we were told that a revamp of the more general template, to facilitate such a merge, was in hand. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:21, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

  • I vote to merge.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 12:53, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment I have tagged the standard television episode template with noinclude tags for this TFD, as it's causing the notification to come up on ~11,000 pages, even though it's not relevant on ~10,960 pages, given that it's just the Paris by Night template that is being considered for merging. -- /Alex/21 04:17, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose merge, convert to module instead - As I pointed out at the last TfD, {{Infobox television episode}} does not contain a number of parameters that are included in {{Infobox Paris by Night}}. These parameters are "executive" (not the same or substitutable by "producer"), mc, filmedat, filmedon, venue and format. That's 6 of the 9 parameters. The TV templates were indeed updated to allow inclusion of other parameters but this is done by using modules rather than adding rarely used, single program specific fields. As Infobox Paris by Night is only used in 41 articles and not the 10,800 that currently use Infobox television episode it would be more appropriate to convert this infobox to a module. That said, it was pointed out at the last TfD that the programs using this infobox are not part of a TV series. Instead, they are essentially standalone events that were filmed and then released on home media. {{Infobox television}} is only missing the "format" parameter (it has alternatives to others) but that doesn't seem like a necessary field. Infobox television is missing the navigation between articles present in the episode and season infoboxes but the Paris by Night infobox doesn't include that anyway. With all that said though, since these don't actually appear to have been broadcast on TV so they are not really TV programs and probably shouldn't use TV infoboxes. --AussieLegend () 04:32, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment - this should be either treated as stand-alone DVD movies and then use {{Infobox television}} (or {{Infobox film}}), as "episodes" of Paris by Night and use {{Infobox television episode}}. Another option is to generalize this template to Template:Infobox live event and then maybe use that in templates like {{Infobox award}}'s "Television/radio coverage" section. In any case |format= should be removed as it's basically the home media format it was released on, which no other film or TV infobox uses. --Gonnym (talk) 08:24, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
    • It's worth noting that "format" was a parameter of {{infobox television}} for a long time but was eventually removed because it was an ambiguous term that nobody really understood. --AussieLegend () 08:57, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:27, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There seems to be a consensus that it shouldn't be a standalone template, discussion about the relative merits of a conversion to a module or a merger would be appreciated.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, --Trialpears (talk) 18:51, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

October 2


Probably a redundant template. 2600:1702:38D0:E70:C589:FDCB:CA80:C761 (talk) 11:24, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

  • Delete A more specific template should be used. --Trialpears (talk) 15:14, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Keep. The only more specific template I'm aware of is Template:Uw-coi-username, and that template would only be appropriate for a subset of cases when this template would be applicable. I'm also don't see to which template this template is redundant. It would be helpful if the nominator could specify. --Bsherr (talk) 18:56, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
    That's because accounts in the "Offensive and disruptive usernames"({{uw-vaublock}}) and "Misleading usernames"({{uw-ublock-double}}, {{uw-adminublock}}, {{uw-ublock-famous}}, {{uw-botublock}} and {{uw-causeblock}}) would be banned. For the "Promotional usernames" part {{Uw-coi-username}} should be used as you said. Lastly for "Usernames implying shared use" I didn't find one for cases such as "Jack and Jill's Account", but most of them would fall under {{Uw-coi-username}}. --Trialpears (talk) 20:00, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
    What about Wikiafripedia:Username policy#Talk to the user, which states, If you see a username that is problematic but was not obviously created in bad faith, politely draw the user's attention to this policy, and try to encourage them to create a new account with a different username. Doesn't that apply to more than just promotional usernames? And what about cases in which several categories of impermissible usernames apply? Doesn't this template work best for those situations? --Bsherr (talk) 20:15, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
    Most of these cases seem to be dealt with by cutomizing the reason in the normal {{Uw-username}} template which I think is better due to more customisation, but I would like to know what people who actually deal with this kind of stuff so I posted a notification at WT:UPOL. --Trialpears (talk) 22:15, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Keep - probably redundant to what? — xaosflux Talk 22:15, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Suggestion – What we could do is "merge" this template into {{Uw-username}}, so that the latter includes the parameters "offensive", "disruptive", "misleading", "promotional" and "shared use", so for example:
(Collapsed to avoid clutter)
  • {{subst:uw-username|promotional=yes}} would automatically give [...] This is a message to let you know that your username, "Example-bad-username", may not comply with Wikiafripedia's username policy. Please note that promotional usernames—those that match the name of a company, organization, group, website or product (e.g. "XYZ Company", "", "Foobar Museum of Art")—are prohibited. However, you are allowed to use a username that contains such a name if it identifies you personally (e.g. "Jack Smith at XYZ Company", "Mark at WidgetsUSA", "FoobarFan87"). [...]
  • {{subst:uw-username|promotional=yes|offensive=yes}} or {{subst:uw-username|promotional=yes|disruptive=yes}} would give: This is a message to let you know that your username, "Example-bad-username", may not comply with Wikiafripedia's username policy. Please note that the following types of usernames are prohibited:
  • Promotional usernames: Those that match the name of a company, organization, group, website or product (e.g. "XYZ Company", "", "Foobar Museum of Art"). However, you are allowed to use a username that contains such a name if it identifies you personally (e.g. "Jack Smith at XYZ Company", "Mark at WidgetsUSA", "FoobarFan87").
  • Offensive and disruptive usernames: Those that contain words or phrases that are likely to offend other contributors, directly threaten or attack another person or some entity, contain contentious material about living persons, or otherwise imply you do not intend to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia (e.g. "JohnIsAJerk", "WannabeWikiafripediaVandal"). [...]
We can also include these parameters in Twinkle options (see images in collapsed box below).
(Collapsed to avoid clutter)
What it looks like now
Proposed change
Linguist111my talk page 04:18, 19 September 2019 (UTC) Note to closing admin: Linguist111 (talkcontribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this TfD.
I think a meta-template like that is a good idea. I don't think it makes a template that provides an overview of the policy redundant. This template is most often used on less than clear and convincing violations. In such a circumstance, it may be better to approach a user with a template that provides an overview of the policy rather than identifying a specific part, which comes closer to seeming like an accusation. Not always, but I think it is useful to have the choice. --Bsherr (talk) 14:38, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
What about this?
Alternative proposal
The "include policy overview" option could generate the text that {{Uw-uall}} currently has, and the parameter could be something like {{subst:uw-username|all=yes}} and/or {{subst:uw-username|overview=yes}}. Linguist111my talk page 16:51, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
Proposed parameters. Linguist111my talk page 17:50, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
Support the idea of retaining both functions, of course, but keeping them as separate templates would be better. The text introducing the branches of the policy will need to be different: For the meta-template, explaining that the portion of the policy that is of concern is the following. For the general template, setting forth the branches of the policy, without implying that the username implicates all four. Assuming that, now we have a switch that selects between very large blocks of text. With separate templates, the templates' separate pages will preview each iteration fully, the simpler design of separate templates makes them easier to edit for everyone, and the documentation will be simpler. --Bsherr (talk) 18:56, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:37, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Template:WikiProject Pterosaurs

Propose merging Template:WikiProject Pterosaurs with Template:WikiProject Palaeontology.
WikiProject banner for a task force. Should be merged with main project banner to avoid unnecessary duplication. No changes in categorization, but easier maintenance in the future, less clutter and better interactions with auto assessment tools. --Trialpears (talk) 23:43, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

  • Support per nom. Looks like the main banner already supports the task force anyway. PC78 (talk) 07:35, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Not sure what is meant by easier management. We already have two Tree of Life WAPs that are too large for some maintenance tasks to run. If {{WikiProject Pterosaurs}} were removed, then each affected article would have to be tagged with both {{WikiProject Palaeontology}} and {{WikiProject Amphibians and Reptiles}}, increasing the amount of clutter. Right now, only {{WikiProject Pterosaurs}} is required. If we really wanted to streamline things, removing the legacy TF parameters from {{WikiProject Palaeontology}} and updating affected pages would be the better option. --Nessie (talk) 13:47, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
    • @NessieVL: I'm afraid I don't understand the nature of your complaint, nor where {{WikiProject Amphibians and Reptiles}} comes into it. All {{WikiProject Pterosaurs}} does is feed Category:Pterosaurs task force articles (and subcategories therof), a task which {{WikiProject Palaeontology}} can do just as well on its own. Many pages appear to have all three banners (Talk:Eudimorphodon, Talk:Nyctosaurus, etc.), not one as you suggest. PC78 (talk) 18:15, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
      • @PC78: Just because some banners are misapplied, does not mean everything must be wiped away. All pterosaur articles are both reptiles and paleotaxa. These articles should either use only {{WikiProject Pterosaurs}} (preferred), or both {{WikiProject Palaeontology}} and {{WikiProject Amphibians and Reptiles}}. The latter is more clutter and more duplication, the former is cleaner and easier to parse for maintenance tasks.
      • Also, a taskforce or subproject is allowed to be listed as a taskforce or hook of a parent project. WAPBats and WAPPrimates are both listed as hooks in {{WikiProject Mammals}}, despite having separate banners. WAPMCB was a TF under the {{WikiProject Fungi}} banner until recently, despite not actually being a TF nor subproject. The hooks make it easier for casual editors to put articles in the relevant wikiprojects by giving them multiple options. The AFC approval tools do not suggest them, which is why having both options is preferred for smaller projects.
      • And let's not forget that this project is not defunct or anything, so not sure why we need to start consolidating everything now. --Nessie (talk) 19:34, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
        • I still don't entirely follow. If a page only uses {{WikiProject Pterosaurs}} then it will only feed into categories for that task force. If categorisation for the two parent projects is necessary then you will need to use those banners as well. You assert that only the Pterosaur banner is necessary on those pages; if that's true, then merging it into {{WikiProject Palaeontology}} will be of no detriment to WikiProject Amphibians and Reptiles. PC78 (talk) 20:00, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
          • OK, let's use another example. Say we are placing WAP banners on the talk page for Elasmosaurus. It would get {{WikiProject Palaeontology}}, {{WikiProject Amphibians and Reptiles}}, and {{WikiProject Marine life}}. Conversely, Giant squid only needs {{WikiProject Cephalopods}}. It does not need {{WikiProject Marine life}}, as that would be redundant. All cephalopods are marine. Likewise, you don't need to tag Bonobo under both {{WikiProject Primates}} and {{WikiProject Mammals}} (nor even {{WikiProject Mammals|primates=yes}}). You only use the first one, {{WikiProject Primates}}. We don't need turtles all the way down. --Nessie (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
            • That logic runs counter to every other WikiProject I've encountered, and I don't see any evidence for it at either WikiProject Marine life or WikiProject Cephalopods (and just to note, Giant squid does in fact have both banners which seems to undermine your argument). To use an example that I'm more familiar with, WAP:FILMBIO is a subproject of WAP:BIOGRAPHY and instead of having a separate template it has a parameter in {{WikiProject Biography}}; any article about an actor or filmmaker is therefore categorised for both projects because it is relevant to both, the two do not somehow become mutually exclusive of each other. By the same token, Giant squid is relevant to both WAP Cephalopods and WAP Marine life but it currently requires two templates to achieve the same result, which if anything makes it look like another merge candidate. PC78 (talk) 00:14, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
            • Welcome to the Tree of Life WikiProjects then. Under your logic, Firefly should be not just in {{WikiProject Beetles}}, but also {{WikiProject Insects}}, {{WikiProject Arthropods}}, {{WikiProject Animals}}, {{WikiProject Tree of Life}}, and {{WikiProject Biology}}. --Nessie (talk) 15:15, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
              • Then lets wind this back to start: if the Pterosaur banner is removed from Talk:Pterodactylus and replaced with a parameter in the other banner, it will have no impact. If the Marine biology is not needed now, it will not be needed after a merge. The existence of a standalone banner for Pteroaurs is neither here nor there. PC78 (talk) 15:58, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
                • Yes, back at the start I said "If {{WikiProject Pterosaurs}} were removed, then each affected article would have to be tagged with both {{WikiProject Palaeontology}} and {{WikiProject Amphibians and Reptiles}}...." Pterosaurs are not marine, they are reptiles. Not all paleontological articles relate to herpetology. I think you are not understanding the consensus of how these are used in taxa articles. --Nessie (talk) 17:14, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
                  • No, I've just got my wires crossed; clearly I meant Amphibians and Reptiles and not Marine biology. I think it's you who doesn't fully understand how WikiProject banners work. We aren't proposing to get rid of the Pterosaur task force, merely the banner, and if the task force falls under WAP Amphibians and Reptiles by default then that won't magically change if we merge the banner into WAP Palaeontology. Are there any Pterosaur articles that wouldn't fall under Palaeontology? If not then I can't see any need or justification for keeping it. Whatever impact you think this has on WAP Amphibians and Reptiles seems entirley imagined on your part. I think I'm going to let this rest because it doesn't feel like either of us are getting anywhere. PC78 (talk) 17:49, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - it would seem the pterosaur task force is already incorporated in the paleo template for the relevant articles? See for example the talk page of Pteranodon. FunkMonk (talk) 14:12, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
    • It would still need a bit of work to incorporate the separate importance ratings and requested image categorisation, but that's an easy enough task. PC78 (talk) 20:55, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
      • @PC78 and FunkMonk: are you volunteering to do all that? --Nessie (talk) 15:15, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
        • The changes I refered to are fairly trivial, I'd be happy to do them. PC78 (talk) 15:58, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
I'm sure a bot could do it. FunkMonk (talk) 19:14, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
I'm willing to do it and have made some regex that had 0 false positives when converting the 500 uses WikiProject Patna. --Trialpears (talk) 19:19, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment The main benefit this merger would entail would be making sure that all Pterosaurs are tagged with {{WAP Palaeontology}} and whether this is desirable is entirely up to the wikiproject, which it has been for all task forces I've seen. If this isn't desirable then I will of course change my mind. For the bats tf example there were some major differences with major arguments being percieved technical problems and unnecessary work, neither of these are problems here. Ultimately though the choice is up to the WikiProject and if NessieVL is still opposed to the change I think it shouldn't be in any way forced by outsiders that have never contributed to any pterosaurus articles. --Trialpears (talk) 19:44, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment - This all still seems very backwards. Shouldn't this first have consensus at WAPPaleo/AAR to revoke the semi-autonomy of Pterosaurs? That's what happened at Wikiafripedia:WikiProject Video games/Inactive project cleanup. Plus I still don't know what harm the template is causing. Again, see Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 February 19#Template:WikiProject Mammals/Bats Task Force.
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:19, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment - I lean towards supporting this but am willing to listen to some better opposition before I actually vote on it. To me some of the arguments miss the point a little. This is not just about whether or not (using the analogy above) all primates are mammals, hence all pterosaurs are fossils. Its about division of labor and effort. Having a satisfactory method of grouping projects so as to both attract interested editors and keep the maintenance of any specific group more bearable for those editors. If Pterosaurs are a large group that can justify being separate on the grounds of attracting editors and maintaining their pages, and separating this from the rest of paleontology assists with this then I can see the argument for retaining it, but I have seen no convincing discussion on this issue yet. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 15:15, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
@Faendalimas: That sounds like a discussion about Wikiafripedia:WikiProject Palaeontology/Pterosaurs task force and not Template:WikiProject Pterosaurs

Completed discussions[edit source | edit]

If process guidelines are met, move templates to the appropriate subsection here to prepare to delete. Before deleting a template, ensure that it is not in use on any pages (other than talk pages where eliminating the link would change the meaning of a prior discussion), by checking Special:Whatlinkshere for '(transclusion)'. Consider placing

  1. REDIRECT Template:Template link

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Closing discussions[edit source | edit]

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To review[edit source | edit]

Templates for which each transclusion requires individual attention and analysis before the template is deleted.

  1. REDIRECT Template:Template link


  • There's a discussion about this merger at Wikiafripedia talk:WikiProject Aircraft#Template:Aircraft specs merger bot --Trialpears (talk) 15:52, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  • For merging into {{Yesno}} - will need heavy sandboxing:
    Primefac You indicated that you had some kind of idea how this merger may be done while closing this discussion with the first step being making a If affirmed/declined a yesno wrapper. I've done that in the sandboxes, but as you can see in the testcases it does change the value for a not insignificant amount of values. Are we supposed to go through each and every template that uses if affirmed/declined to see if it breaks anything and if it doesn't substitute it in? Do anyone have a better plan? -- Trialpears (talk) 21:38, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
    I don't see your changes to {{Yesno/sandbox}}. If you don't change the source, then the template won't know what the "yes" and "no" values are. --Gonnym (talk) 21:53, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
    Sorry if I were unclear, I meant Template:If affirmed/sandbox and Template:If declined/sandbox is where I've made a simple wrapper version. This will inevitably lead to some output differences if we don't change YesNo directly but I don't believe we have consensus to do so. Several people in the TfD thought we shouldn't touch YesNo and last time a RfC was required before they added on and off. -- Trialpears (talk) 22:28, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
    {{if affirmed}} is basically done, just 750ish transclusions from broken substitutuion of {{welcome cookie}}. Could someone with a TfD bot go through these replacing
    {{ {{{\|safesubst:}}}if affirmed\|{{{notalk\|}}} \| \| ask me on {{ {{{\|safesubst:}}}ifsubst \| \[\[User talk:{{{{{{\|safesubst:}}}REVISIONUSER}}\|my talk page]] \| my talk page }} or }}([^\[]*\[\[User:)([^|]*)
    {{subst:if affirmed|{{{notalk|}}} | | ask me on {{subst:ifsubst | [[User talk:$2|my talk page]] | my talk page }} or }}$1$2
    . There seems to be a few more cases left, but this should be the vast majority. Regex is tested and there is no way this will cause false positives. --Trialpears (talk) 10:00, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
    Will get to this in the next few days. Primefac (talk) 19:24, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Template:Ctime:062019 March 8Ctime:06 ( links | transclusions | talk | doc | sandbox | testcases ) - see Wikiafripedia_talk:WikiProject_Templates#Template:Ctime
  • {{link language}} wrappers - listed at WAP:LLWRAP, see TFD for full close. In short - wrappers should be orphaned; first from template use (see §4 of LLWRAP) then article space.
    Wouldn't this be solved by just making all of them auto-substitute? The templates are so simple that they're already substituable. --Trialpears (talk) 16:02, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
    That is certainly possible for most of them. I do highly suggest you actually read through the discussion before just slapping a one-size-fits-all solution to almost 300 templates; some of them are not direct wrappers and some of them have extra content that may need to be considered. Additionally, all of them have a commented-out section giving the language - this should not be subst'ed. Primefac (talk) 16:15, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
    I have read it and will check that they actually are only a direct wrapper (using regex). before adding auto substitute, but if that is enough for 90% of them that's what I'll do after dealing with the unprotected templates. I also wonder what I should replace them with. I feel like In lang would be the best choice, but since this wasn't even a redirect an hour ago and there were so many opinions about it I thought it would be best asking you. --Trialpears (talk) 17:50, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
    Sorry if I implied that you were going to rashly jump into this; thanks for being cautious. I would say that for anything that isn't protected and/or has <50 uses, {{language link}} would be fine to use in the wrapper (i.e. they can pretty much stay unchanged). I'll have to have a think about the higher-use ones, though; in particular, I'm going to look at the {{ill}} merger and how we dealt with combining multiple templates with very long names. Primefac (talk) 18:16, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
    {{in lang}} with rudimentary documentation created.
    Trappist the monk (talk) 13:58, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
    I don't know what a substitution forcer file is, but I would suggest that if the list at Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 June 9/Link language wrappers § Templates with above 100 transclusions is intended to identify templates that should be substed from one template to another template, then that list is flawed. There are templates listed there that are also listed at Wikiafripedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 June 9/Link language wrappers § Non-standard templates.
    Trappist the monk (talk) 15:46, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
    AnomieBOT require templates with over 100 transclusions to be added to User:AnomieBOT/TemplateSubster force for them to be auto substituted. I thought it would be useful having a list when that time comes. The first step will of course be fixing the unusual templates before starting substituting them. --Trialpears (talk) 15:55, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
    Is that even the right tool to use? Substing {{de icon}} templates will return {{link language|de}}<!--German--> (I'm not sure how categories are handled in these kinds of cases). But, if the intent of this whole thing was to replace the icon templates with a more appropriately named template (which {{link language}} is not) then how is the AnomieBot task the correct task? One task to troll through and subst all of the various icon templates and then another to subst all of the {{link language}} templates? Is that safe? Are there cases where {{link language}} is used natively where changing those transclusions to {{in lang}} would be the wrong thing?
    Trappist the monk (talk) 16:28, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
    I was planning on doing an AWB run to make sure all templates are only transcluding {{link language|langcode}} or whatever redirect we decide on using and then let AnomieBOT substitute it, which I think would do the job. The categories are handled by the template and removing the comments would not affect them. I'm not sure what's happening with {{in lang}}. It was only a redirect to link language a couple of days ago and I thought that was the intent based on the closing comment. Why do we have two templates doing the same thing now? Updating the original template would be better if you want to implement new features. --Trialpears (talk) 16:53, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
    The only consensus reached is for removal of the wrapper templates: the various {{<xx> icon}} templates change to something. The close doesn't say to what those templates are to be changed. One might infer that they are to be 'unwrapped' to reveal the inner template which may not necessarily be {{link language}}; I suspect that to be the most common (and likely only) template that has been wrapped for this application. The use of {{LL}} as a redirect is addressed to the extent that a WAP:RFD is required to do anything about it (an implicit no consensus). As a result of this RFC, {{in lang}} was created as a redirect to {{link language}} but never used for that purpose (redirect because no consensus to rename {{link language}}). I converted that redirect to a template as a way out of the mire that the fourth bullet item and definitive no-consensus declaration leaves us in:
    explicit consensus to remove (from article space) {{<xx> icon}} wrapper templates (first bullet point in the close)
    explicit no consensus to delete the wrapper templates (fourth bullet point in the close)
    consensus / no consensus not stated with regard to deprecation of the wrapper templates (implicit no consensus)
    What point is there to removing the wrapper templates from article space if we don't have a consensus to do anything with the wrapper templates themselves once the transclusions are removed from article space? We don't have a consensus for deletion yet the wrapper templates are marked with {{being deleted}} templates which contradicts the fourth bullet item in the close; both conditions cannot simultaneously exist (deleting something that we don't have consensus to delete). The close is mute on deprecation so apparently we don't have consensus for that either.
    So, a new template with enhanced features and different categories to replace any-and-all uses of the wrapper templates. This, I think, meets the single consensus we do have, to remove the wrapper templates from article space. A new template is not constrained by the contradictions of the close. The wrapper templates are left to be deleted in dribs and drabs as anticipated in the close.
    To answer your question: Why do we have two templates doing the same thing now? Yeah, there are two templates doing similar things; the original is constrained by the decisions (and lack of decisions) of an inconclusive RFC. The new is not constrained by that RFC and can be used to replace the wrapper templates in article space in compliance with the one consensus decision achieved by the RFC; the new template has features that the original does not: |link=, |cap=, multiple language support; the new template fills different categories; the new template name is consistent with what it does (preceding text – may or may not be a link – refers to something that is written in <language name>); the new template does not support |cat-lang= for the reasons stated at Template talk:Link language § the cat-lang parameter.
    Trappist the monk (talk) 22:31, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
    Since there has been no further comment I have done these things:
    1. written Monkbot/task 15: normalize lang icon templates
    2. created as a test bed:
      1. Category:Articles with non-English-language sources – parent category for sub-cats:
        Category:Articles with Abkhazian-language sources (ab) et al;
      2. Template:Non-English-language source category – documentation template for sub-cats;
    without objection I shall:
    1. start a WAP:BRFA for Monkbot/task 15
    2. create additional sub-categories in Category:Articles with non-English-language sources according to those categories in Category:Articles with non-English-language external links that are not empty
    3. when approved, run Monkbot/task 15 to replace {{<xx> icon}} and redirects with {{in lang|<xx>}}
    Trappist the monk (talk) 14:18, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
    I don't approve of having both {{link language}} and {{in lang}} doing the same thing. {{link language}} should be updated and then {{in lang}} be redirected. Other than that I think it sounds good. --Trialpears (talk) 14:28, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
    Nor do I approve, however, they are not doing the same thing. It is true they are doing similar things but {{in lang}} is about sources and allows multiple languages to be references whereas {{link language}} is for only external links (which "sources" might be considered to include) and does not allow multiple languages. The latter also has a few issues with some extra parameters allowing strange categorizations. So in shorts {{in lang}} was resigned without the historic constraints imposed upon {{link language}} allowing it to be more flexible and potentially more things (if it is ever widely deployed to so such). If anything, after most of these transclusions have been updated to use {{in lang}}, {{link language}} could be updated to use/redirect to {{in lang}} (or just be deleted outright with the rest of the templates targeted by this RFC decision). (talk) 02:39, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
    I'm confused. You start out by saying Nor do I approve but then appear to talk yourself around to suggesting that the {{in lang}} should be deployed as I have outlined above. So which is it?
    Trappist the monk (talk) 11:48, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Trappist the monk There are now four templates using cat-lang after I fixed the easy ones a while ago: {{bal icon}}, {{ilo icon}}, {{nan icon}} and {{ksh icon}}. I think there are really two ways to handle this, either starting a CfD to change the names of these categories or modify Module:Lang. When this situation is dealt with we should sync with your improved link language template and then make sure all templates subsitute properly and then finally use AnomieBOT to mass subsitute these and then delete them. --Trialpears (talk) 20:21, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
    Your posting above is merely pro forma since you have already set AnomieBOT to work?
    I think that you meant {{bla icon}} not {{bal icon}}.
    Trappist the monk (talk) 22:49, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
    I set it up for a few templates all with few transclusions. It was mearly for testing and if there's consensus to do it some other way it can be reverted. Based on those tests it worked exactly as expected. I'm ready to do the rest if you think my course of action is suitable. --Trialpears (talk) 22:55, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
    Apparently we are at deadlock because you object to {{link language}} (which, it appears, you wish to retain) and {{in lang}} existing simultaneously. I object to continued support of {{link language}} (which I want to go away) because the text that {{link language}} associates with in article text is often not a link. You think that all of the wrapper templates should be subst'd to {{link language}} and I think that the wrapper templates should be replaced with {{in lang}}. You did write above when discussing this topic with Editor Primefac: I also wonder what I should replace them with. I feel like In lang would be the best choice, but since this wasn't even a redirect an hour ago and there were so many opinions about it I thought it would be best asking you so perhaps we aren't at deadlock and are talking past each other.
    Still, at the moment, I don't see any consensus here to do anything there being only two of us participating.
    Trappist the monk (talk) 13:57, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
    Why is it a problem that not all uses of link language are associated with a link? How would that problem be solved by using in lang? Since they have the same output I don't see any reason to keep them separate. I intend on starting another deletion discussion exclusively dealing with very low transclusion wrappers to gain consensus to delete wrappers under 50 transclusions. The arguments for keeping the wrappers don't apply to these and would be helpful for getting rid of a significant chunk of them. --Trialpears (talk) 15:45, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
    The problem is one of semantics. These are taken from Amazons:
    * A. Klugmann, ''[ Die Amazonen in der attischen Literatur und Kunst]'' (1875) {{de icon}}
    * H.L. Krause, ''Die Amazonensage'' (1893) {{de icon}}
    These sort-of-work for both cases because {{de icon}} isn't specific about what kind of text precedes the template. Change {{de icon}} to {{link language|de}} and the first example works because there is a link to a German-language source. The same cannot be said for the second example because there is no link.
    Change {{de icon}} to {{in lang|de}} and both examples work because {{in lang|de}} does not refer to links but does refer to the language of the sources. Editors are often 'literal' and are confused by template names that do not accurately reflect what the template does (one of the reasons that {{de icon}} and similar are not well named – template doesn't produce an 'icon', this is the sort-of-works that I mentioned above) so an editor reading the wikitext of the second example where {{de icon}} has been changed to {{link language|de}} may be confused by that because the second example does not have a link.
    Isn't it first necessary to decide what those wrappers under 50 transclusions are to be replaced with before you charge off and delete them? Why are you in such a rush?
    Trappist the monk (talk) 16:43, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
    I am fine with using in lang as the template name. If we turned {{in lang}} into a redirect that would indeed be my optimal outcome. Can we start working on removing the last few cat-lang uses so we can redirect it now? Regarding the TfD: The main reason is that I kind of messed up yesterday CSDing 4 unused templates thinking there was an exception to the deletion no consensus for unused templates. A TfD would be a solution to this, but I guess they would also fall under T3. I will discuss with the deleting admin (Justlettersandnumbers) to see what they think I should do. --Trialpears (talk) 17:02, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
    OK, I was pinged. Were those mistaken nominations, Trialpears? If so, they can easily be restored – just say the word! (oh, and give me the page titles if you have them handy). Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:41, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
    Justlettersandnumbers Yep they were mistaken, the discussion didn't actually reach a consensus to delete any of the templates, not even these unused ones. I think they would fall under WAP:T3 and will probably tag them so they can be deleted after the 7 day hold. Please undelete {{Av icon}}, {{Arn icon}}, {{Ak icon}}, {{Als icon}} and {{Ajt icon}}. --Trialpears (talk) 21:42, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
     Done. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:00, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
    If you are fine with using in lang as the template name, what is the point of redirecting it? If we are settled that the template name shall be {{in lang}}, then the task ahead is to replace all instances of {{link language}} (and all of its redirects) with {{in lang}}. Deletion of {{link language}} (and all of its redirects) as unused to follow. What then, is the point of a making {{in lang}} into a redirect?
    Trappist the monk (talk) 11:49, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
    If you prefer to redirect in the opposite directions that's by all means fine by me. As long as the end result is one template. --Trialpears (talk) 12:20, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
    Just to move this along, I support Trappist's proposal of replacing the icon templates with the new one. --Gonnym (talk) 14:31, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
    I still think that Trappist's solution is more complicated than necessary, leaving the inevitable merger of these identical templates for later will cause more work overall and replacing it with another template is a bit dubious when the consensus was "Merge to Link Language". I'm however confident that the end result will be basically the same either way and won't block the proposed implementation. --Trialpears (talk) 16:11, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
    With regard to:
    {{bla icon}} see Talk:Blackfoot language § language naming inconsistencies
    {{ilo icon}} see Talk:Ilocano language § language naming inconsistencies
    {{ksh icon}} see Talk:Ripuarian language § language naming inconsistencies
    {{nan icon}} see Talk:Taiwanese Hokkien § language naming inconsistencies
    Trappist the monk (talk) 16:01, 4 October 2019 (UTC) (bla) 18:34, 4 October 2019 (UTC) (ilo) 17:16, 5 October 2019 (UTC) (ksh) 14:56, 6 October 2019 (UTC) (nan)
    Wikiafripedia talk:WikiProject Languages § language naming inconsistencies
    Trappist the monk (talk) 15:02, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

To merge[edit source | edit]

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Arts[edit source | edit]

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Could I claim this merger? I would like to convert this into my first module. It may take some time though since I have zero lua experience. --Trialpears (talk) 18:53, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
Go for it. Just makes sure you sandbox heavily and maybe have one of us check it before you go live. Primefac (talk) 19:09, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

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Templates for which the consensus is that all instances should be substituted (i.e. the template should be merged with the article) are put here until the substitutions are completed. After this is done, the template is deleted from template space.

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